Episode 42
Enhancing Midlife Confidence with Plastic Surgery – Dr. Azra Ashraf
Curious about how cosmetic surgery can restore confidence during midlife? In this episode, we uncover the most popular procedures and what they can do for women navigating the changes of menopause and beyond.
Dr. Sameena Rahman welcomes her longtime friend and renowned plastic surgeon, Dr. Azra Ashraf, for an insightful conversation about cosmetic surgery for midlife women.
Dr. Ashraf shares her journey as a surgeon and discusses the most common procedures sought by women in their 40s and 50s, from breast lifts to tummy tucks and facial rejuvenation. Together, they explore how hormonal changes, such as the loss of estrogen, impact the body and why cosmetic surgery can often help women feel more like themselves again.
They also talk about the importance of reconstructive procedures for women undergoing mastectomies, including breast reconstruction options that have transformed recovery for cancer survivors. Dr. Ashraf shares her personal experiences of helping women regain their confidence and improve their quality of life.
Episode Highlights:
- The rise in cosmetic procedures among perimenopausal women.
- Breast lifts, tummy tucks, and liposuction as part of the "mommy makeover."
- How hormonal changes during menopause affect body shape.
- The importance of breast reconstruction for women post-mastectomy.
- Why some cosmetic procedures are shifting toward more natural, proportioned results.
Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast on your favorite platform! Share this episode with friends who might benefit from learning more about midlife cosmetic procedures and recovery options.
Dr. Ashraf’s Bio:
Dr. Azra Ashraf is a double Board-Certified Plastic Surgeon, boarded by the American Board of Plastic Surgery and American Board of Surgery. She has worked on east and west coasts with over 10 years of cosmetic surgery expertise. Dr. Ashraf was a recognized physician in the Washington DC area, voted a Top Doctor. She is a Californian at heart and loves practicing in her home state.
Dr. Ashraf completed a BA in Public Policy from Brown University, focusing on gender equity in healthcare. This led her to pursue an MPH from Harvard School of Public Health while jointly attending Brown Medical School. She has always loved working with her hands, and knew she wanted to pursue surgery as soon as she started medical school. She is a highly skilled surgeon with an artistic eye for detail.
She trained in general surgery at Saint Elizabeth Medical Center (Boston, MA), an affiliate of Tufts Medical School. She completed her plastic surgery training at Temple University Hospital (Philadelphia, PA). Dr. Ashraf has distinguished herself by completing an additional year in comprehensive breast reconstruction, including microvascular and aesthetic breast surgeries at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, an affiliate of Harvard Medical School.
She is recognized as a beauty expert by both the community and media. Schedule a consultation and work with Dr. Ashraf to diversify the idea of beauty.
Get in touch with Dr. Ashraf:
Get in Touch with Dr. Rahman:
Transcript
Hey y'all, it's me, Dr. Smeenahumar Gaino girl. Welcome back to another podcast with Gaino Girl Presents Sex Drugs and Hormones. I am so excited today. You guys are in for a treat. I have today with me Dr. Asra Ashraf. And here's a little secret you should know. She's one of my BFFs from life. So this is gonna be a fun conversation that we have. As you learned from the introduction, she's an amazing plastic surgeon who is now located in Southern California.
And we're gonna talk about all things related to midlife women, plastic surgery, she came to the career into plastics, and also some of the most common procedures that are done. So let's get at it. Hey, Azra, thank you for coming today on the show.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:thank you so much for inviting me. I'm so excited to be here.
Sameena Rahman (:I'm so excited to talk. Yeah, at least we get to talk it for we haven't spoken. I usually talk. But you know, I have, you know, I had this podcast started about
Dr Azra Ashraf (:This is very formal for how we usually speak.
Sameena Rahman (:I don't know, eight months, no, now 10 months ago. And so I do have patients that ask me all the time about some of the stuff that we're gonna talk about. And I know people have asked about some of the things they can do to improve themselves in midlife and beyond. So I'm excited to talk to you about all of this. But can you talk to us first about, you're a plastic surgeon, you're South Asian, you went to many amazing universities, you're from the Ivy Towers, Brown and Harvard.
and all the things doing, having really top education. And you decided in medical school, Azra was at the eight year Brown University pre-medical program. It's called PLEMI, right? Yeah. What does it stand for? I don't know, P-E-L-M.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Yes.
program in liberal medical education.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes, so she got into med school in high school basically. so, you know, she then went on to become, know, went to medical school decided at some point she wanted to be a plastic surgeon. When was that, Yad? We call each other Yad because that just means friend.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:That's really around like for a third year, fourth year as I was doing my surgical rotations. I, you know, really enjoyed my surgical rotations, but more importantly, my plastic surgery rotations, how the concept of function and change and rehabilitation.
Obviously as plastic surgeons, know, we're not at the forefront of saving lives. Most of us are not, but we are critical to wellbeing and rehabilitation. And so we're kind of the, I'd like to say background surgeons and you know, plastic surgery is so diverse. I know here in Southern California,
Sameena Rahman (:Mm-hmm.
Sameena Rahman (:Mm-hmm.
Sameena Rahman (:Right. The quality of life.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Most people equate plastic surgery with cosmetic surgery and cosmetic surgery is definitely an important aspect of plastic surgery, but then so is hand surgery and cranial facial and all these other aspects of plastic surgery that perhaps don't get the attention or get overlooked given the glamour and celebrity status surrounding cosmetic surgery.
Sameena Rahman (:around us.
Yeah, and you actually have a fellowship in breast reconstructive surgery too.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:I do, and as we were saying, it's breast cancer awareness month, so the timing is great.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, and it's amazing because when women do have those mastectomies, it's always a question of the best way to give someone back the breasts that make them feel whole again. Because this is a big part of what makes a woman feel like a woman for a lot of patients, not for everyone, improves their sexual function and quality of life. And I see it on my end where patients are suffering, but breast kids are from their global background.
symptoms but I see a big difference in the ones that you know do have like successful like plastic surgery after they've had a mastectomy so I commend you.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right, I think we've come to a point in the United States where, you know, most women go in for mastectomy and wake up with some sort of shape. so, they, which wasn't always the case, you know, even in some remote areas in the United States, I think even those women, the access to
Sameena Rahman (:Which wasn't the case before,
Dr Azra Ashraf (:good quality reconstruction is increasing. part of that is also awareness. And so now patients are much more aware about their options for reconstruction and when that can actually occur. And oftentimes, not all, can occur during a...
Dr Azra Ashraf (:during the same operative event as the mastectomy.
Sameena Rahman (:Right, because they used to have to, you know, get what the expander, I mean, I don't even know everything that used to have to be done.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right. So there's a couple of options. You know, the two general categories for reconstruction are implant based and autologous or tissue based. depending on various factors, patient preference, candidacy and the type of cancer, a patient may be eligible for
one or both types of reconstruction and it really depends on kind of what their preferences are and where they are in their life. And at some point they can even, you know, they can switch between reconstructions. So really there's two main types of reconstructions but there's a lot of options within each of those.
Sameena Rahman (:I'm sure Nina and Andrew.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Let's talk a little bit about like, cause you, you know, that I do a lot of midlife care for women and perimenopause and menopause and that postpartum care. And so we always talk about some of the things that women are really seeking out nowadays because as we know in the perimenopause transition, there's all this, you know, accumulation of visceral fat as we lose estrogen and we get more insulin resistance, people get more visceral fat. So the sort of the shape of their body starts to change.
And collagen deficiencies are prominent as we lose estrogen. So obviously there's all this stuff around what's happening to our breasts, what's happening to our abdomen, thighs, buttocks, everything like that. are you seeing, you're in Southern California, what are you seeing that women are really asking for these days and why do think they're doing that?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right, so our most common demographics are women, usually mid to late 40s to 50s. So they are kind of at that perimenopausal phase in their lives. And so oftentimes they come in and they're like, all of a sudden my hormones changed and I put on all this weight. So our most common procedure here in Newport Beach is
a mommy makeover. And most of our patients are exactly, or most of them are perimenopausal. know, a couple things happen. Most women are now done with childbearing. They have some time to focus on themselves and then their hormones change and they're kind of ready for, to get back to a better version of themselves. And so, so we do see some degree of fat accumulation, weight gain,
gain, also some decrease in elasticity and collagen, like you said, with fine lines and wrinkling and presenting for neurotoxins, as well as volume loss in the lower third of the face and fillers. So we are seeing a dramatic change, oftentimes an earlier midpoint change.
in the perimenopausal period.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, and so do you feel like a lot of, mean, I think, you know, Botox is pretty common among most, where are people at fillers these days? Cause I feel like fillers have kind of gotten, you know, a bad rap in so many ways.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Yeah, so they've gotten a bad rep because they've been overused. And here in Southern California, we have no shortage of medical spas that do Botox and fillers, not all of them. But it's not uncommon, patients tell me, that they walk out with three or four fillers, and much more than they had anticipated.
And so fillers, I think, it's like any other modality. It has its place, but it's not the substitution for a facelift or for a mid-face in someone who has other issues. Filler is volume, and how we age, like we touched upon, is multifactorial. There is a degree of volume loss.
And that can definitely be replenished by filler, but there's also a descent of tissue. The fat pads that are on our cheekbones, malar fat pads, you know, start descending down and then we get creases, the nasolabial folds, and then they continue and we get gowling, right? That is a descent of tissue. Now fillers won't, you know, fillers aren't necessarily gonna fix that.
They may mask it if you put enough filler in around the jowling, but that's why people are starting to look kind of swollen. And then amount of filler that requires, you're talking about like at least two to three syringes. And then there's also the skin texture.
you know, the loss of elasticity, the wrinkling, the brown spots, all of that is addressed with like either peels or lasers or skincare. So what I often tell patients is, you know, how we age is multifactorial. And so your solution should also be multifactorial. And fillers and Botox can certainly be
Dr Azra Ashraf (:of that equation, they do delay aging a little bit, but they don't replace a surgical facelift. what we also see is modalities such as coals sculpting and lasers. When truly the patient's issue is skin elasticity or excess skin for pregnancies. And so that sets patients up for
Sameena Rahman (:Like a toolkit, right?
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:for disappointment.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, because some of those things don't work to really correct that. And for some patients, no matter how many sessions they get, they don't get the quality that they need. always find that patients that I have who tell me they've had that done, they ultimately do then need something better like abdominal plasities. Is that a combination you give a lot of patients, abdominal plasty and like,
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Sure, yeah. So our most common procedure is a tummy tuck with some sort of breast lift, plus or minus implants. In the cosmetic population, there is that a shift of the pendulum again. People are going more natural. know, the exaggerated bodies are phasing out. And so now we are seeing more of a proportioned body and some of that,
Sameena Rahman (:Mm-hmm.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:we think is dictated by ozempic, people are more fit, and the concept of looking fit is actually more important than the exaggerated buttocks and breasts. So I'd say most of my patients will do natural lifts. Now, obviously, if they don't have the volume, we do add implants. And then...
Sameena Rahman (:or heroin, heroin chic.
Sameena Rahman (:really, so a lot of people are not even choosing to use like silicone or...
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Yeah, I was still calling to say implants. No, there's a shift here. I would say it's half and half, you know, and if they do select the implant route, it's solely because they want to replace that upper superior poles, we call it the superior pole volume, and not necessarily like be bigger. Now, every so often, I do get patients that want to be big and you know,
We are here to understand their goals and deliver accordingly as long as it's safe. But generally speaking, most of my patients are looking for just a natural lift.
Sameena Rahman (:And what do you do for that? Do you take fat from a different area and try to transplant the area? Or just a natural lift?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:No, just, so, you know, oftentimes after breastfeeding and hormonal changes, the breasts become tautic or droopy, and we just reposition the tissue they already have back up on the chest wall. Usually there's a minimal volume, you know, like in terms of tissue removed, the grams, they're usually less than 20 grams a side.
And now obviously there's an issue with symmetry where one breast is significantly larger than the other, then we do remove more tissue from the larger breasts. so, so, so, you know, the natural lift is basically just repositioning the breast back up on the chest wall. It is aesthetically different.
Sameena Rahman (:Okay.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:than an implant-based mastopexy only because it's less projected and less the fullness up top, like natural tissue tends to descend.
Sameena Rahman (:And so you would do that and then also you do the liposuction and the abdominal plies. Can you tell us what that procedure kind of entails?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Yeah, so an abdominal posty is the removal of excess skin, shifts in weight, most commonly pregnancy, and then placation of the rectus muscle from pregnancy, and then liposuction. Right, yeah, so the muscles separate. And I find any woman that's had a child usually has some degree of it.
Sameena Rahman (:Some people get that diastasis, right, where the muscles...
Dr Azra Ashraf (:the question becomes whether it's clinically relevant. Is it worth the diastasis repair? I find the patients who had their kids younger, often like in their, teen moms and you know, in their twenties, their tissue, their integrity was much better. They tend to not need as aggressive of a diastasis repair.
and then liposuction of the ways just for sculpting purposes.
Sameena Rahman (:And how are, like with the liposuction and all of this procedure, it's usually like the same day, like they're out of the surgical center. Like what's recovery like for that? Or, you know, tell us a little bit more.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Sure. So at our practice, we start prepping our patients like three to four days before, you know, for the procedure, you know, in terms of in terms of in terms of recovery, making sure they're appropriately hydrated. And then the procedure itself is about six hours. I try to keep all my procedures under six hours of surgery given or take it as under general anesthesia.
Sameena Rahman (:Mm-hmm.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:In terms of recovery, our patients, most of them are off of Vicodin within five days, or day, most of them take less than five pills. Because we've come up with a protocol where we actually prevent the pain from ever happening. And so most women do pretty well. Now there is still the recovery. The pain is usually well managed and most women don't even have.
Sameena Rahman (:Wow.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:pain until day two to three after surgery when the lidocaine wears off. And that's usually when they have the onset of initial pain. And so as we know, pain peaks around 48 hours, which is when swelling peaks. And so if you're experiencing pain for the first time, 48 to 72 hours, you're experiencing a
blunted pain as opposed to that initial peak pain. You've kind of avoided that. And then we are pretty strict about DVT prophylaxis, ambulating. We do understand that these procedures are very safe, but they are higher risk. And so we are all about patient safety and taking the necessary protocols.
Sameena Rahman (:Okay.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:instituting, know, we check their go-preme score prior to surgery, you know, and appropriately make sure they have TEDs and SEDs prior to induction of anesthesia. And so we've kind of got it down where most of our patients say, but when they come in there for their one week post-op, they say they are off of pain meds and they had no pain.
That said, they did have a recovery. They were swollen, uncomfortable, like the swelling, like sleeping in a contorted position, in a reclined position. So there is, you know, there's still a recovery, but at least the pain portion of it is, has been somewhat mitigated.
Sameena Rahman (:that.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah.
Sameena Rahman (:other things.
Sameena Rahman (:That's amazing, actually. And what do you call it, like, some of the biggest risks of having these procedures?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:So I would say DVT is definitely one, just because there are longer procedures. yeah, most DVTs occur on induction of anesthesia due to loss of vascular toll. And so DVT is definitely one, which goes hand in hand with potential PE, which can be potentially
Sameena Rahman (:blood clot in the legs, right? Because they're sedentary, right? Sedentary in that.
Sameena Rahman (:Okay, yes.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:fatal. With liposuction, there's also the chance of bad embolus, although that is much more common with like a BBL or Brazilian butt lift. Risk of infection, especially in implant-based reconstruction. Those are the main, you know, there's the, in terms of risk, there's the devastating risk, and then there's the other risk. And the other risk is more like the small wound to head since or
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:you know, type of things that are much easier managed with local wound care.
Sameena Rahman (:open up.
Sameena Rahman (:wonderful. And so you think those like hematomas.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Bleeding is definitely a risk. we watch them pretty closely.
Sameena Rahman (:That's good. you find that most, I mean, obviously most people should understand that most plastic surgery isn't covered under any kind insurance based situation. Is that?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:That is true. Now, breast reconstruction, if you're talking about that, that certainly is. But mommy makeovers, liposuction, tummy tucks, breast lifts, those are considered cosmetic and self-pay.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, absolutely. Tell us, I mean, this is so awesome that you're doing all these things to help women's quality of life and it really can transform how they feel about themselves. Is that one of the biggest things you see when you see patients after they've fully recovered? Like, how do they feel? you feel like most of them, you know, I mean, I'm sure there's some people that regret certain things, but for the majority of your patients, do they feel pretty much?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:I think at two weeks, usually it's two to three weeks that a patient can really get a grip. And around two to three weeks is when they feel back to normal. yeah, then most of them, it's nice because they come in after that much more confident and like oftentimes they're dressed up with their hair done. And most of them,
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:As a surgeon or a physician, the true marker of success is a patient referral. And so most of them are their friends notice and they give them our name and our, so yeah, it is great. A lot of them, they're about to get married or they just got divorced and it's finally something for themselves.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:And most of them are very happy because I think they feel like they're kind of back to what they consider normal. Like they don't have the extra skin. All of that is very normal, sacrilege of pregnancy. it's hard to tell a woman that it's.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:it's expected normal and live with it when there's actually a solution out there. And so most of them are much more confident about and they feel good about themselves. And that's usually what is most important.
Sameena Rahman (:Exactly.
Sameena Rahman (:you
We talk about this a lot in the menopause sphere that like, you know, as a culture, we've just come to accept that women should suffer more or their quality of life should be impaired when we have solutions for it, right? And I think that's why, you know, when a man has an issue or is hormone deficient, he gets offered hormone therapy pretty regularly. Like that's, you know, something that's not ever really questioned unless there's some significant issue. Whereas when a woman, you know,
is searching for like hormone replacement therapy or hormone, menopausal hormone therapy to help her quality of life, to help her sleep, to help her reduce hot flashes, you know, to feel a little bit like themselves. As you go through this roller coaster of hormones, it's like, how much are you suffering, you know, to get there? And so I think it's very interesting because it's the same perspective on this side of the equation where like, okay, you know, a woman doesn't feel good about herself because, know, she has
Dr Azra Ashraf (:and
Sameena Rahman (:her self-esteem is a little bit off because of the way she feels in her own skin and to relieve them of that. And some of those patients who have significant back pain from like their breasts sagging or like whatever the reduction that happens afterwards and how it improves their quality of life, like that should be enough for us to like say, okay, we can do this for them, but I feel like it's always a barrier.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right. And that's why reductions are actually covered under insurance. Lifts are not, but reductions are because of the volume you have to remove to alleviate the back and neck pain.
Sameena Rahman (:because of back.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, that's a good point. Well, tell us how like, I mean, I obviously know because I've known you forever, tell us, tell us when you were going through this journey into plastic surgeon, like surgery, you know, it's not an easy, I have a lot of listeners that like are students and they're in residency or whatever. I mean, it's obviously not an easy journey for anyone, but I mean, plastic surgery is still kind of an old boys network. What'd say?
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Yeah, it's changing. think it's somewhere around 14 to 18 % women now and increasing. I don't think it's fully manifested out because that would require people to retire as well. And that just makes sense because there more women going into medical school. And so I think we're going to see.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:and more female plastic surgeons. And to me, it makes sense. 90 % of the patients are women, much like OB, right? Greater than 90 % of the patients are women. And often they do seek out a female doctor.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Great, yeah.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Oftentimes they think I'm a male until they meet me, know, just by my name. And, you know, I just think the default is, it's a male. And there's nothing wrong. mean, I've had great male doctors. but, you know, if there are options, there's, you know, nothing wrong with having options. And who I think ultimately boils down to is who you as an individual feel.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes, yes. I mean they're great male physicians.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:comfortable with and who you're going to trust. And that could be male or female. So yeah, I did general surgery. And I'm board certified in general surgery. just research it. And then although I knew I wanted to be a plastic surgeon early on, it didn't play out that way. I didn't match into plastic surgery.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:I actually didn't even apply to general surgery, so I actually didn't match it to anything. And, you know, I laugh now, but it was quite devastating at the time. And I pursued prelim spots. So I did a series of prelims spots, you know, in a scramble, eventually found a categorical general surgery spot.
and finished general surgery, and then at a smaller community program. then plastic surgery fellowship is competitive as well. And so I was able to link up with some of my other attendings and write some papers. And I matched into plastic surgery. then
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:At that time plastic surgery was transitioning to a three-year fellowship, but half of the programs were two years and half of them were three years and I matched into a two-year fellowship and then did a specific fellowship in micro deep flaps as a third year at the Deaconess.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:After I completed all that, I had found my first job and I found my second job. And it takes a while. This whole process we're going through, we're trying to figure out what we want and what works. And as women, we're having children and our caretakers. And so life is also happening. And so always.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes, we talk about a lot. Balancing all that.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:in DC for six years. And in DC, I did quite a bit of reconstructive surgery, breast reductions and breast reconstruction as well. And then I'm from Southern California. So ultimately, my husband's also a Californian. We decided to move back home. And so at that point, I was
You know, I had worked for about six, seven years and, you know, at that point I know when I'm good at and I know, you know, equally important what I'm not. And so I just felt that it was about time, it was time to start my own practice. And so I just, as naive or crazy as it may be, I just moved back home, not knowing anyone and hung a shingle and just went for it.
Sameena Rahman (:you want.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes. Well, I mean, that's sometimes what we have to do to try to kind of, you know, remind ourselves why we went into this profession so that we can have a little bit of autonomy over our own.
lives, but also just, you know, try to practice medicine in the terms that we feel like are best for us. So I'm proud of you. think wonderful. It's hard to do. We all know that being an entrepreneur is not easy, but I think that, you know, you're on your way to, you know, getting to a point where you are going to be flourishing. It's always hard. The first couple, probably two or three years even, I mean, sometimes up to five, but I think that,
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right. And it's really the patients that keep you going because, you know, your true sign of success as a, as a private practice clinician is your patient. I mean, that's why we're doing this, right? Writing a paper isn't going to, which is great. And it has its attributes, but isn't going to translate into, this, you know, building a practice.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:And so it's really your patients that keep you going and show up and just offering, you know, it's very simple, like good care. I don't necessarily have the fanciest office or, you know, all those soft components, like marketing components, like fancy, like, you know, brochures or...
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:You know, but I think what we do well is we're a small practice and we offer good care and we're always attentive to our patients. And ultimately that's what dictates good care. It's like going to a restaurant, right? You can go to like a Michelin star restaurant with a great ambiance and have terrible food and bad service or mediocre service, or you can go to a hole in the wall where...
the individual has put in a lot of love and it's great food and great service. And not to say we're a hole in the wall, ultimately patience and success is also value-based.
Sameena Rahman (:Right.
Sameena Rahman (:Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm so happy that you came on talk about some of the stuff that you're doing and I have to have you back on so we can have some more detailed discussions. As I met in college, actually at the end of college. So we've been lifelong BFFs for a very long time. So we've seen each other go through everything ups and downs. So I'm so happy for your success and I can't wait to see you. And
Dr Azra Ashraf (:And likewise.
Sameena Rahman (:And it also goes to show that sometimes first impressions aren't the...
Sameena Rahman (:and I met through this program and we were doing a summer program and it was like I don't think that we had a great first impression of each other.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Our first meeting wasn't great.
Sameena Rahman (:We're about doing these fellowships for the UN. What was that? UN Public Outreach Fellowship.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:I was laid the labor, child labor. Well, I was a woman I can't even remember.
Sameena Rahman (:Yeah, and I was with, what was I? was with No, was with UNICEF. I was with UNICEF, yeah. Anyway, but yeah, we formed a great friendship and we've been friends ever since and see each other as much as we can and have been through ups and downs together. So that's another lesson learned that sometimes first impressions aren't always what keeps you and you never know who will come into your life that will make the biggest impact.
because that's absolutely. All right, and as usual, thanks for listening today, guys. This is what Gyno Girl presents, sex drugs and hormones. Remember, I'm here to educate so you can advocate for yourself. Please join me next week for another great episode. Thanks. Yay, yay, yeah, very good.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:Right, and always be open to change.
Dr Azra Ashraf (:All right, thank you.
